FWIW, the incel asshole problem is a complete mystery to me. I have never felt any sort of entitlement in this regard, and I don't think my friends have either. That certainly doesn't mean we weren't "involuntarily" celibate much of the time - it just means we never thought of it as someone else's responsibility. And this might sound a bit odd, but the societal messages I received as a kid were that you either "got lucky" and met the right person, or if that didn't work there was the "Paying For It" approach ala Chester Brown. Otherwise, no one owed you anything. In my circles (and family), men I knew who didn't treat women well were generally despised, but of course, they exist.
On the other hand I remember being bullied for being sensitive or emotionally aware as a kid, and as an adult having girlfriends taken aback by the "novelty" of those traits in a male partner.
Thanks Chris! It's interesting- the idea of ostracism has kept a lot of behavior in line for thousands of years. I forgot, but it's true, in circles I was in, men who didn't treat women well were jerks, outcasts. When did we stop casting them out?
Listening to these all out of order. (I still don't know how substack works, somehow.) I enjoyed this. The part about the basement poetry readings reminded me of a guy I worked at summer camp with in 1989 who tried to rally a group of us counselors to sneak off and read poetry together in the woods. (He seemed almost desperate to make this happen, so the energy of this conversation - and wanting desperately to understand something about the world, and how we might interact in it - feels similar to the energy he had when suggesting this activity.) It was the same summer the movie Dead Poets Society came out, and that is what sparked him to want to do this. I am so curious if that movie was on the radar of Tim and others when they were doing their poetry readings in basements.
FWIW, the incel asshole problem is a complete mystery to me. I have never felt any sort of entitlement in this regard, and I don't think my friends have either. That certainly doesn't mean we weren't "involuntarily" celibate much of the time - it just means we never thought of it as someone else's responsibility. And this might sound a bit odd, but the societal messages I received as a kid were that you either "got lucky" and met the right person, or if that didn't work there was the "Paying For It" approach ala Chester Brown. Otherwise, no one owed you anything. In my circles (and family), men I knew who didn't treat women well were generally despised, but of course, they exist.
On the other hand I remember being bullied for being sensitive or emotionally aware as a kid, and as an adult having girlfriends taken aback by the "novelty" of those traits in a male partner.
Thanks Chris! It's interesting- the idea of ostracism has kept a lot of behavior in line for thousands of years. I forgot, but it's true, in circles I was in, men who didn't treat women well were jerks, outcasts. When did we stop casting them out?
I love this and love that you are doing this.
Thanks for the tip about Tim's podcast as well, will check it out.
Loved the reading segment as well.
Maybe it's a big hassle, but - any chance you could also distribute this via regular podcast channels/apps?
hi Dante! You're right, I forgot that step. Working on it now. Search Men: An Explanation soon!
Listening to these all out of order. (I still don't know how substack works, somehow.) I enjoyed this. The part about the basement poetry readings reminded me of a guy I worked at summer camp with in 1989 who tried to rally a group of us counselors to sneak off and read poetry together in the woods. (He seemed almost desperate to make this happen, so the energy of this conversation - and wanting desperately to understand something about the world, and how we might interact in it - feels similar to the energy he had when suggesting this activity.) It was the same summer the movie Dead Poets Society came out, and that is what sparked him to want to do this. I am so curious if that movie was on the radar of Tim and others when they were doing their poetry readings in basements.